Exchange with Dr. Leonard Sweet
Friends,
This morning I read an article by Dr. Sweet about a church plant up in Michigan (called WestWinds). I appreciated the article and what the church is up to, but was interested in his use of the label "postmodern".
I emailed Dr. Sweet and I have cut and pasted my original email below, (which includes the original article), followed by his response. I am formulating my response now, but I was encouraged by his missive. There are good and bad elements in modernity, there are good and bad elements in postmodernity. We need to embrace the good where we find it and reject what is antithetical to Christianity where we find it in both. Therefore, we need to be not modern or postmodern, but Christian. Dr. Sweet seems to affirm that basic thought. But my one concern is, he seems to do the accept/reject move on Modernity, but I hear him harping only the positive elements of PoMo and I hear no mention of the multitude of problematic elements within it.
Our email dialogue is below, I'll post the rest of it as it develops.
Blessings,
BJ
>>> My original email:
Dr. Leonard Sweet,
thank you for your intriguing article on the WestWinds church (I have cut and pasted it below). I am a student at Denver Seminary studying philosophy. I am in full accord and agreement with these great things that WestWinds church is doing. But my question for you is how exactly is this a "postmodern" church as you call it? The beautiful history of the Church is filled with countless examples of communities of worshipers lifting their hearts aesthetically to God. Certainly a high (and proper) emphasis on aesthetics and artistic appreciation isn't "postmodern", is it? Was Isaac Watts or J. S. Bach a postmodern? Or perhaps it's WestWinds innovation and creativity? Well, I think this is outstanding that they are so willing to try new things: but, again, how is that "postmodern"? Martin Luther's church community tried a lot of new things (and I think most of the time their innovations were for the better), but certainly they were not postmoderns.
I guess I am humbly saying that while I am excited about what WestWinds is doing I don't see how they are specifically postmodern. Please help me see what you mean here by postmodern and why we are using that term to categorize this church. Thank you for your time -- I know it is valuable.
Very Respectfully,
B. Jay Strawser
PS
As one final inquiry: Contrary to your claim, sir, I actually do hear a lot of people (yes, young people, my age -- I am 24), saying "I don't have a church life." That actually is a common complaint. True -- they also long for a spiritual life as you point out. But (perhaps surprisingly) they seem to have this radical notion that the two might be connected. Again, I think it is nothing short of outstanding that WestWinds is offering people "a common spiritual life through the adventure of a sacred pilgrimage with Jesus." That is wonderful! We need more churches with such a clear attitude and vision. But once again... how is that peculiar to postmodernity? Hasn't that been exactly what the Church has always offered followers of Christ? Thank you once again for your time.
[The original Article]
A Cutting Edge Red Tape Church
by Leonard Sweet
Leaders who dream the most are those who are most awake.
Take Ron Martoia, lead pastor at one of the most awakening new church plants in America-WestWinds Community Church in Jackson, Michigan.
WestWinds is awake to the needs of postmoderns. People today aren't complaining, "I don't have a church life." But they are complaining, "I don't have a spiritual life." WestWinds offers postmoderns a common spiritual life through the adventure of a sacred pilgrimage with Jesus.
WestWinds is awake to the arts. Everything about the church is designed to help postmoderns have artistic and aesthetic spiritual experiences. The original Greek meaning of "aesthetics" refers to things that are perceived by the senses. WestWinds is awake to the changing ways postmoderns experience meaning and evaluate reality-through a multisensory, multimedia, multilayering tapestry of gesture, symbol, word, and metaphor. Worship at WestWinds isn't high-tech-it's high aesthetics-deploying artists and designing space for God to be experienced in sight, sound, taste, touch, and smell.
WestWinds is awake to the Spirit. Preferring spirit descriptions to job descriptions, the WestWinds team competes with each other in risk-taking and permission-giving. Martoia takes team-based, not solo, continuing education jaunts. For their team the question isn't, "What's wrong and how can we fix it?" Instead the cutting question is, "What's possible here and who's going to give it a try?" This impulse to create and innovate is what's behind the phrase "cutting red tape." Thomas Edison's laboratory in Menlo Park, New Jersey was the world's first great R&D facility. In six years, the invention factory at Menlo Park secured more than 400 patents. The U.S. Patent Office watched and waited for packages that were wrapped in a certain kind of red tape. They knew these came from Edison's lab, and they cut these first. WestWinds is an invention factory for the postmodern church.
WestWinds is awake to the future. When one enters the building, what leaps first into consciousness isn't the stunning graphics on the walls or the original sculptures on the floor, but a waist-high row of tiles that riddle the walkway-obviously designed by children. WestWinds takes seriously Jesus' rebuke of his disciples' age bias (Matthew 19:14). Just as Jesus integrated children into his sermons (Matthew 18:2-3), so this church integrates children into its very mission. Instead of honoring its founding fathers, WestWinds celebrates its "founding children." Each colorful tile tells of the hopes and dreams of the 130 charter children of this 22nd century church.
Leonard Sweet is dean of the theological school of Drew University in Madison, New Jersey. (LenISweet@aol.com)
>>>> And Dr. Sweet's response to me:
Bradley:
It's hard for me to answer your email without a lengthy summary of about ten of my books. Have you checked the emerging church movement websites, or The Ooze? A lot of the discussions online address your questions.
But in short:
I argue that the epistemology being formed by digital culture (as opposed to print culture or book culture) is EPIC where E=experiential, P=participatory, I=image rich, and C=connective. In the modern world, the epistemology was Rational/Logical/Linear, Performance-based/Representational, Word-driven, and Individualistic. The "arts" were seldom featured or celebrated in worship (check out the paradigmatic Puritan meeting-house, which was stripped of all images and arts except for "words"). You are right that "postmodern" is more "premodern" than "modern."
I assume you're a student of Doug Groothius, who is opposed to all this "postmodern" missiology. Where I agree with Doug is that essentially the issue is not "postmodern" or "modern" or anything else. The issue is that God is up to something big, and are we going to be a part of what God is doing or not? And what God is doing is not more "sit-and-soak" worship with one-hour Sunday spectaculars that entertain. The true church has always been EPIC, I think. But then I don't want to lose what we learned in modernity either.
Still in One Peace,
len
This morning I read an article by Dr. Sweet about a church plant up in Michigan (called WestWinds). I appreciated the article and what the church is up to, but was interested in his use of the label "postmodern".
I emailed Dr. Sweet and I have cut and pasted my original email below, (which includes the original article), followed by his response. I am formulating my response now, but I was encouraged by his missive. There are good and bad elements in modernity, there are good and bad elements in postmodernity. We need to embrace the good where we find it and reject what is antithetical to Christianity where we find it in both. Therefore, we need to be not modern or postmodern, but Christian. Dr. Sweet seems to affirm that basic thought. But my one concern is, he seems to do the accept/reject move on Modernity, but I hear him harping only the positive elements of PoMo and I hear no mention of the multitude of problematic elements within it.
Our email dialogue is below, I'll post the rest of it as it develops.
Blessings,
BJ
>>> My original email:
Dr. Leonard Sweet,
thank you for your intriguing article on the WestWinds church (I have cut and pasted it below). I am a student at Denver Seminary studying philosophy. I am in full accord and agreement with these great things that WestWinds church is doing. But my question for you is how exactly is this a "postmodern" church as you call it? The beautiful history of the Church is filled with countless examples of communities of worshipers lifting their hearts aesthetically to God. Certainly a high (and proper) emphasis on aesthetics and artistic appreciation isn't "postmodern", is it? Was Isaac Watts or J. S. Bach a postmodern? Or perhaps it's WestWinds innovation and creativity? Well, I think this is outstanding that they are so willing to try new things: but, again, how is that "postmodern"? Martin Luther's church community tried a lot of new things (and I think most of the time their innovations were for the better), but certainly they were not postmoderns.
I guess I am humbly saying that while I am excited about what WestWinds is doing I don't see how they are specifically postmodern. Please help me see what you mean here by postmodern and why we are using that term to categorize this church. Thank you for your time -- I know it is valuable.
Very Respectfully,
B. Jay Strawser
PS
As one final inquiry: Contrary to your claim, sir, I actually do hear a lot of people (yes, young people, my age -- I am 24), saying "I don't have a church life." That actually is a common complaint. True -- they also long for a spiritual life as you point out. But (perhaps surprisingly) they seem to have this radical notion that the two might be connected. Again, I think it is nothing short of outstanding that WestWinds is offering people "a common spiritual life through the adventure of a sacred pilgrimage with Jesus." That is wonderful! We need more churches with such a clear attitude and vision. But once again... how is that peculiar to postmodernity? Hasn't that been exactly what the Church has always offered followers of Christ? Thank you once again for your time.
[The original Article]
A Cutting Edge Red Tape Church
by Leonard Sweet
Leaders who dream the most are those who are most awake.
Take Ron Martoia, lead pastor at one of the most awakening new church plants in America-WestWinds Community Church in Jackson, Michigan.
WestWinds is awake to the needs of postmoderns. People today aren't complaining, "I don't have a church life." But they are complaining, "I don't have a spiritual life." WestWinds offers postmoderns a common spiritual life through the adventure of a sacred pilgrimage with Jesus.
WestWinds is awake to the arts. Everything about the church is designed to help postmoderns have artistic and aesthetic spiritual experiences. The original Greek meaning of "aesthetics" refers to things that are perceived by the senses. WestWinds is awake to the changing ways postmoderns experience meaning and evaluate reality-through a multisensory, multimedia, multilayering tapestry of gesture, symbol, word, and metaphor. Worship at WestWinds isn't high-tech-it's high aesthetics-deploying artists and designing space for God to be experienced in sight, sound, taste, touch, and smell.
WestWinds is awake to the Spirit. Preferring spirit descriptions to job descriptions, the WestWinds team competes with each other in risk-taking and permission-giving. Martoia takes team-based, not solo, continuing education jaunts. For their team the question isn't, "What's wrong and how can we fix it?" Instead the cutting question is, "What's possible here and who's going to give it a try?" This impulse to create and innovate is what's behind the phrase "cutting red tape." Thomas Edison's laboratory in Menlo Park, New Jersey was the world's first great R&D facility. In six years, the invention factory at Menlo Park secured more than 400 patents. The U.S. Patent Office watched and waited for packages that were wrapped in a certain kind of red tape. They knew these came from Edison's lab, and they cut these first. WestWinds is an invention factory for the postmodern church.
WestWinds is awake to the future. When one enters the building, what leaps first into consciousness isn't the stunning graphics on the walls or the original sculptures on the floor, but a waist-high row of tiles that riddle the walkway-obviously designed by children. WestWinds takes seriously Jesus' rebuke of his disciples' age bias (Matthew 19:14). Just as Jesus integrated children into his sermons (Matthew 18:2-3), so this church integrates children into its very mission. Instead of honoring its founding fathers, WestWinds celebrates its "founding children." Each colorful tile tells of the hopes and dreams of the 130 charter children of this 22nd century church.
Leonard Sweet is dean of the theological school of Drew University in Madison, New Jersey. (LenISweet@aol.com)
>>>> And Dr. Sweet's response to me:
Bradley:
It's hard for me to answer your email without a lengthy summary of about ten of my books. Have you checked the emerging church movement websites, or The Ooze? A lot of the discussions online address your questions.
But in short:
I argue that the epistemology being formed by digital culture (as opposed to print culture or book culture) is EPIC where E=experiential, P=participatory, I=image rich, and C=connective. In the modern world, the epistemology was Rational/Logical/Linear, Performance-based/Representational, Word-driven, and Individualistic. The "arts" were seldom featured or celebrated in worship (check out the paradigmatic Puritan meeting-house, which was stripped of all images and arts except for "words"). You are right that "postmodern" is more "premodern" than "modern."
I assume you're a student of Doug Groothius, who is opposed to all this "postmodern" missiology. Where I agree with Doug is that essentially the issue is not "postmodern" or "modern" or anything else. The issue is that God is up to something big, and are we going to be a part of what God is doing or not? And what God is doing is not more "sit-and-soak" worship with one-hour Sunday spectaculars that entertain. The true church has always been EPIC, I think. But then I don't want to lose what we learned in modernity either.
Still in One Peace,
len
posted by BJS at
9:54:00 AM
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